ASP-FastBoard: Forum-ID 7804

Reconcilition talk - Chronicle - attachments

Marcus The Cube — Sun, 19 Sep 2010 14:44:52 +0100

PM sent out to all SOJ member in ToR after 5 hours of playing and talking with Chrico and Millie on the 27.6.2010
in this talk they said it was my bad English that caused the misunderstanding, and "talking about playing together" does not mean "talking about an alliance".

Hello all,

and cheers from Belgium. I am sorry, I have and will have a busy time until the last third of July. The dialogue will be therefore slower. Especially my replies will take longer compared to what you are used to. But I think that gives us all more time to think and react in the nicest possible way. I will try my best to stick to that :)

first of all I retain the main points of the long talk I had with Chrisco and Millie and at the end Miikka on Sunday:

+ Chrisco, Millie and I would like to play Guild Wars together again in an alliance between our guilds and be again the game friends that we used to be for many years.
+ The reason why our efforts to talk with ToR failed is that I/we did not use the word "alliance" in our offers to talk but used the (for us) wider term "playing together".
+ Official talks are now opened. After 3 months and from my point of view 4 failed attempts this is most likely our last chance to mend the relationship.
+ There is a thread in the ToR forum about an alliance with SOJ and SK in which Millie, Chrisco and Mikka have voted yes (obviously as otherwise all this would be a farce :P), Dave no (I was not directly told but it was clear enough readable between the lines) and "several other members" have also voted no.
+ Nobody from ToR volunteered yet to find out why they have voted no or to mediate, explain,...
+ Miikka will play the role of a coordinator for ToR. I will do that for SOJ and SK.

Some help here would be very welcome
In fact personally I had enough of guild drama for years in advance in the last months :( My goal here was and is to do whatever is possible from my part.
I found that we were a great community. So I would like to invite those that share this opinion to help me a bit before it's too late.
If you are one of the people that has voted "no" - please give me a chance to talk with you about your reasons.

QuoteOn our forum there were some people who expressed strongly that they do not want to join an alliance with SOJ/SK. I'm sorry to tell you, but the reasons boiled down to you personally. Lies were mentioned. There was also a reference to some "fuck you video" posting. :rolleyes: I have no idea what that is about, nor do I really care at this point.

As Chrisco said on TS, we are not going to antagonize anyone in ToR by joining an alliance they don't want. I also don't think anyone on our side is going to try to convince anyone else that you are not what they think you are.

From this I can see exactly one possible path to an alliance with you guys. And it goes through you making peace with whoever you have had a feud with. You probably know who these people are... And if that succeeds, THEN ToR can extend an arm towards SOJ/SK, offering alliance.

Making peace
That will only work out when we both make an effort... I can't fix that alone! Sometimes I feel like a spectator sitting in a movie that has missed the beginning of the screening. I have already contacted 2 months ago all SOJ member in ToR if they had a problem with me and offered to talk but besides Miikka no one replied in a negative way, even Dave replied that he "had no problem at all with me, was always made to feel welcome, had nothing but happy times and would be willing to help".

The "the word fuck" video is one of the 9 mood videos posted in the 1555 days of SOJ thread. It has been seen uncommented only by Wesley and Millie. Millie told me some time ago she found it funny - it actually really is. Wesley asked me. I told him that if at all he should consider the main link as meant for him. This was posted during a time when we were in good terms with each other and playing again together, so imho that could not be misunderstood by any well-meaning ToR member.

QuotePersonally, I would welcome the alliance, as I have said from the beginning. But I don't expect anything, from you or anyone else. By the way, in your earlier posts you refer to some "cold and awful decisions ToR has made". What do you mean by that? To the best of my knowledge, our side brought up the idea of an alliance, which was promptly turned down by SOJ/SK. After that I really don't understand what we could have done. (At that point it might have been easier from our side to do, too.)

The idea of an alliance was born by Millie and me on the 30/3. I officially suggested it to ToR when I had my first talk with Chrisco on 2nd of April. In between these dates Millie & Wesley asked Lilly & me about the status of the discussion. We both said that it doesn't look good. People here wanted to see a gesture of regret from ToR for causing so much damage before talking about a reunion or alliance. So what you could have done in the last 2 months is to accept my invitations "to talk about playing together" and not reject them because I did not use the word "alliance". But seriously, these misunderstanding hurt immensely and felt like hits in the face!
In between there were always good moments but then again we had the feeling you are just waiting that I/we do something you can misinterpret in a bad way...

Future
I would love to see us play together again as GW friends that we used to be for so many years. Yes, there are some obstacles to overcome, but with good will on both sides that shouldn't be too hard. It's a game. We have played it together for ages... If everyone admits that he has overreacted we should be fine, don't you think?

Cheers and best wishes!
Marcus

Message to a guild of people that are cold as ice...

Marcus The Cube — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 11:30:48 +0100

Looking back, it was one of my biggest mistakes to offer you a guild friendship more than 3 years ago. You used us as safe harbor while you had bad times and dropped and looted us once you felt strong again. You did that in a really disgusting way, turning your back and leaving, taking with you whatever you could grab.

The facts are:

Until today there was no arguing, no dispute & no talking with me at all from the moment when Oyvind posted that he wants to reactivate ICE.

The trigger seems to be that we decided to kick Oyvind when he started to recruit people for ICE, namely one person that he thought me and other SOJ officers were still in an open conflict with. On the other hand you executed your next steps so precise and quick that this was probably one of your last steps. Of course it could have also been a pure coincidence that within a day so many of you that are in ICE for years came back online after months and years and felt the strong urge to play with the people from SOJ and organise for them multiple events daily for a few weeks, but I don't think so.

It really was not a lie or pretext as it seemed. The announcement that you want to make ICE more active was true and he implemented it.
Oyvind made ICE more active at SOJs expense and we were blind. We did not recognise this open threat until it was too late.

But, why would Lotta want to break up after many years of friendship. Because we kicked an SOJ member?
They knew it was not an impulsive decision. It was discussed for a whole evening in a special alliance officer & leader meeting. We decided to kick him unanimously.
Even if the decision to kick him would have been not fair, it was clearly neither morally nor formally of her business or concern. Some clearing words and all could have been arranged. After such a long time in SOJ Oyvind and especially Carmen knew that - but this silent but massive action simply looks like breaking things on purpose...

Why did Fredrik ignore my messages in game? At the same time he kept chatting on guild and alliance chat. Why did he consciously provoke us?
Why did Lotta not even respond after using the "rrring" on msn? Why did neither Lotta nor Fredrik talk with me until today?

Once we had kicked Oyvind ourselves, which required technically to kick the presumably empty and/or sleeping former ICE guild there was no discussion, no questions, no interaction at all with me or an alliance officer. Was this the expected or even the wanted/desired outcome? Silently but like a well trained army corps they left our guild in lockstep. A perfectly concerted action. Impressive... but how on Earth did they logistically manage to get the former members of ICE - most of them were inactive on our roster after they joined SOJ 6 months ago - to almost synchronously leave SOJ?
Why didn't anyone of the former ICE member ask questions before leaving SOJ?
That's very strange to say the least...

Let's just have a look at a few details and facts. Instead of wasting time with talking they made sure to quickly take the entire SOJ PvP team with them. They didn't stop there. The "come play with us" tactic was used to get a sufficiently large amount of SOJ member to switch to ICE while we were "weak" because of all the internal discussions we had. We were not sure on how to react on such a huge betrayal of confidence carried out by long-time game friends. That was our weakness.
They didn't waste any time/emotions for such discussions. They didn't look back. They ICE coldly implemented their plan step by step...

During our 4th anniversary week-end ICE mobilised all resources to run up to 3 parallel events to get as many PvE players from SOJ as possible to join them to torpedo the celebration events. The highlight was that even I was invited only a few minutes after logging in with my storage account. Raban, a from a longer GW break returning SOJ member, was made feel so welcome in ICE that he switched to ICE on that same day. That straw broke the camel's back.

When after a month we decided to go for countermeasures ofc that was used against us. The above posting asking people to stand and play together was put as if we - the bad guys - would now start to forbid the people to play with the SOJ people that went to ICE (and Syrax, the more or less only daily active "genuine" ICE player).
And we were so stupid to fall for this trick and started an internal discussion instead of protecting our community from the very clever "come play with us, let's have some fun" "attacks" from ICE. Our stupidly friendly attitude resulted in many event cancellations and a constant loss of members to ICE.

Also during the next troubles we encountered ICE sent their recruiters out to "suck us dry" to use Jesses' (Hot) words.

At the end Oyvinds' announcement that he would reactivate ICE was successfully turned into reality at our expense.

In other words: good that we got rid of them.

Diary

Marcus The Cube — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 16:59:01 +0100

24.5.2010

Last personal try - 4th attempt "invitation to talk about talking" in a nostalgic moment after getting some distance to the drama during my holidays in Turkey.
Chris (Godsie) leaves the guild to join ToR apologising and stating that he is not joining them because he agrees or supports them in what happened in SOJ.

No reply

7.6.2010

Because I find it hard to understand how after all the good times we spent together all the former SOJ member that are now equal leaders of ToR can approve to reject our last offer to talk about playing together again I ask Miikka and Greg in a personal message to explain me why they refuse to talk, why they hold up their allegations against me, why they deem it necessary to ban me from playing with them and deny me and Linda access to their forum.

Fifth attempt

23.6.2010

Miikka replies that he was not involved in the above discussions and decisions and that Millie, Chrisco and Wesley had no mandate to talk for ToR.
He will get back to me with a concerted answer next week.

26.6.2010

I chat with Chrisco on msn about the topic "playing together" (no joke). Friendly tone

27.6.2010

I talk for 4 hours with Chrisco and Millie on TS.
They explain to me that all the above mentioned attempts to talk were rejected because we offered to talk about "playing together" and did not use the word "alliance". Millie, Chrisco and Miikka would like to have an alliance but unnamed members of ToR do not for unspecified reasons. We agree to proceed step by step. As they are not able/willing to talk with the people that voted no, I will have to find out firstly who they are and talk with them before we start resuming to "play together" on a regular basis. Secondly we will invite all for a few activities as the other way is not possible as long as people veto my presence on ToRs TS and in their teams.

1.7.2010

I sent a PM to all former SOJ member with a short summary of the nice talk I had with Chrisco and Millie on Sunday and an invitation to talk with me in case that they would have a problem with me or somebody else. As Dave seemed to me to be the one Millie & Chrisco meant with "unnamed" member, I sent him an individual PM.

2.7.2010

Somebody opens the ToR thread about an alliance with SOJ for me for a few hours before locking me entirely out. In that thread Wesley and Dave threatened to leave ToR if it came to an alliance with SOJ. Chrisco voted firmly no. All this happened already days before the chat and the talk I had with him and Millie. In a new posting Chrisco now confirms in that thread that he doesn't want an alliance and would leave ToR if that would happen. Dave makes fun of my last PM.
None of the other ToR co-leader comments or criticises those statements or replies to my last invitation to talk.

At midnight Chrisco delivers TORs' final decision:

Personal closing statement:

For me every single officer in ToR has now maxed out his AH title. Some of my best ingame friends turned hostile because I was a little bit harsh with Chrisco?! No.
Friends, loyal and dedicated leaders of this community for many years would never leave and try to destroy this community without a previous thorough discussion.
Friends would never call me an idiotic liar. Friends would object when somebody calls us drama queens, attention whores and self deluded elitists behind our back...
Friends would never think or say "yeah, we managed to get all the active people we care most, screw the rest". Friends could never arrange that with their conscience.
Real friends would not trash me and you like a used toy after so many years of "friendship" on a Sunday morning just like that. They could never do that. No. Never.

While this thread was open for all during the last months they locked me out of their forum except for 2 weeks in which they made sure not to have anything planned I could join. Then they decided to sever ties with us but still found it funny to continue teasing me. They were only friendly to smash the door in my face on the next day.
In my eyes they were false friends. They redlined me, left us behind, built walls and ruined a nice GW players community for little more than nothing.
We have spent approximately 100 hours preparing for serious talks that were rejected because of no or irrational reasons.
They were not worth it. They messed around with us and just trampled it all down. I will try to forget them.

11.7.2010

Finally an honest statement by Millie.
It seems they just wanted to have their own guild (TART) back and take whoever they could with them. Their actions were false and despiteful. They did a great job pretending to be friends until they showed their true face: closing ranks, creating a new guild and casting me out. All within the 6 hours Wesley knew that I had no internet... This seen in contrast to my 2 months of work convincing Chrisco to start to read and use this forum and to organise a guild event looks very strange!

Whatever happened. At the end of the day Chrisco and Dave certainly beat a record in being double-faced. Millie, Greg and Wesley switched year long friendships off like the lights in their room. Miikkas' statements made no sense to me as usual. Godsie & others just cared about the higher activity level in ToR. Not one of them made the tiniest effort to start a dialogue to mend things. On the contrary. They brutally turned down all my attempts to talk or at least did not veto this hard line. I was blind and did not want to see that they were bad people. Opportunists that were just pretending to be friends. Ice-cold turning their back on me and you. They did not care a second about me or anyone that did not take sides with them in the past months. Not once in all this time they invited me to play or talk with them. They only accepted my invitations to mess about with me and throw the door in my face on the next day. I was blind and made a fool of myself trying to mend a non-existent friendship.

Farewell Millie, Wesley & Co.
Farewell is a word, so simple, so dour. Saying what started but did not endure.
Farewell is a feeling of something that’s gone. Farewell is a memory that stays for too long.
Farewell is everything that’s been left unsaid. Farewell is the greeting of someone who’s dead.

Let a new age dawn, an age of justice and peace for all Swords and their allies!

Reconcilition talk - Chronicle - attachments

Marcus The Cube — Wed, 19 May 2010 11:50:43 +0100

PM seen by Millie, Chrisco and Wesley as attempt to recruit former SOJ players in ToR individually

Hello Tuukka,

the reason why I write you is related to the split of SOJ. Of course that will not be a surprise to you. We are now playing this game for quite a while together, even if we have more chatted on TS together then we have actually played together, I don't actually know why, but anyway,...

As you know SOJ is a more then 4 years old social guild and has of course been through ups and downs, which is rather normal when so many people spend quite a lot of time together. What started as a little skirmish between me and Chrisco got out of hands and ended up with a separation of friends that have been together in SOJ for a couple of years and that wanted to continue to play together in GW2. We have spent almost every evening of the last years together on TS. I have even met Wesley in real life several times. We have at the end spend more time together then with any other friend in real life... that's why the emotional impact of that split is heavy :(
In the last month I have tried to mend the damaged friendship and from my point of view I think that after 2 weeks of anger we have settled our issue now and we (Millie, Chrisco, Wesley & me) regret to have stupidly overreacted on a tiny little detail.

These are in principle very good news :) but now we got stuck in the details on how to best reverse the damage, and that's where you come into play.

The major obstacle is that Millie, Chrisco & Wesley think that you & the others that followed them to ToR would not want to return to SOJ with them.
I think we had never troubles with each other, so I can not imagine any reason why you would not want to follow them back to SOJ now that the conflict is settled.
That's why I would like to ask you if you would really feel uncomfortable to return, see major problems related to a reunion or even don't want to return at all?
> If you would be happy to return anyway, please tell me and also tell Millie, Chrisco & Wesley that you would be happy to follow them back to SOJ.
> If you would not be happy to return, I would like to ask you if I can do anything that would make it easier for you or that could change your mind?

Of course any help you would be happy to offer to solve this is highly appreciated.

Thank you for your help!

Marcus

Reconcilition talk - Chronicle - attachments

Marcus The Cube — Mon, 17 May 2010 16:25:17 +0100

Destruction of SOJ thread

Picture of Wesley before he started to show off with being a capeless officer ;)

Monday 8.3.2010 9.04am

Dear all,

you announce here that you will destroy a whole community that you built up with me and promised to serve and lead because... (of what actually?!)
Without a discussion?! That is a heavy threat, that is blackmailing, that is imposing your will upon others, so if you look for a tyrant, look in the mirror.

But seriously Wesley, the screenshot of the posting (I took back!) only voices my frustration for being threatened by Millie for a little face-off with Chris.
I have not bothered Chris with the cape on Saturday any more, I have even removed the whole rule to calm things down, what else do you want?
Please stop to escalate this. You put our friendship and our planned and prepared future as a really nice gamer community in GW2 at stake!
Do you really want to reject my invitation to talk and destroy what we have built together over more then 4 years?!

Here is my reply to the allegations raised:

a.) that I am a liar

It was discussed, agreed and confirmed in the promotion thread. Chris wore usually his cape when I was in his party and only sometimes needed a gentle reminder.
Whenever I called him, when we were joking, Gérôme or French he switched it off for an hour. I found this to be an excellent and funny compromise for both.
I find it hard to believe that you forgot about all those things today... anyway, here is the evidence: the rule, the promotion, chatlog 1 and chatlog 2.

b.) that I single out Chrisco / officer requirement / rule

Wesley, I had with you more then one talk about it, but you refused to wear it, claiming you never agreed to wear it and could not wear it as a principle. You never said why, maybe to be the "rebellious = coolest officer"?.. To avoid that this becomes a trendy thing I made it an officer requirement. Millie was the first officer promoted under this new requirement introduced already in 2008 when people wondered why you, Wesley, the newly promoted officer, were not wearing the Christmas cape.

c.) ridiculous rules

That the leaders of a community wear proudly their own heraldic is not ridiculous. It's normal. Who else should wear it when not the guild officers...
All officers before you wore it proudly as a matter of course. They never had a problem, it went without saying.

d.) tyranny

As you, Wesley, are the prime example that I am not a tyrant, I don't take that serious. You have almost never returned to the community what you were supposed to and had agreed upon. Did I demote you?... We can discuss everything you want, but not in this "my way or highway" style = what you don't like has to be removed or you leave & destroy everything. Because this is tyranny!

This "my way or doorway" is a charge with a nice sound, but in reality whenever we had a controversial topic, and let's not overdraw it, we almost had none, whenever you disagreed with me, I corrected my position and followed your suggestions. In fact my understanding of the leadership in SOJ is that we lead it together. That means to share the duties and responsibilities, discuss things in a relaxed and fair way, but not argue and blame me heatedly if the outcome doesn't please you.

e.) threatening

First I wonder how Chris can (still) feel threatened by a 30 seconds ingame message skirmish about wearing the guild cape on Friday during the DoA event.
There was no follow-up. On the contrary, on the next day I just switched my own cape off when he was taunting me dancing cape-less in front of me.
That you get a negative reaction when you rudely refuse what you are supposed to do is threatening? That's the most normal thing in life!
What "leader" would just ignore that? What would you think of a friend that wouldn't react when you throw him a rude no in his face?

Closing statement

I do not play this game any more because of it's content but because I like to play it with you. I like and enjoy your company. I see you as close in-game or even real friends and I hope you see in me not only the guild leader but also the friend you like to play with. We know each other for 2 and more years, we have spent more time together then with any of our real life friends in this time. Let's do an effort to mend and preserve this and see how we can avoid such dangerous situations in the future.

I have avoided to use any smilies in my rather serious posting above, but I want to close with a smile.

We were and and are . We should be really and do our best to become and be the friends we were again.

Diary

Marcus The Cube — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:27:27 +0100

Chronicle of the reconciliation initiatives taken by the SOJ and SK leadership and the answers of the ToR guild:
ToR has no leader. The answers had to be internally aligned with all members. That seems to be the explanation for all the surprising turnarounds.
This thread is a live summary of the steps taken. It was open for ToR members for 6 months until September 11th 2010 to provide for transparency.

First attempt

Week 0

Friday night - Sunday night: 5.3. - 7.3.2010

In the SOJ 2010 thread you can read what happened between Friday night and Sunday morning. I sent several PMs to Millie, Chrisco and Wesley inviting them to talk. Millie replies that the relationship had broken down and would never have been mended and that I did not offer to talk once in the 24 hours. Forgotten seems the chat on msn that I had with her and the long talk with Wesley on Skype only a couple of hours before they left not hinting towards any major issue or upcoming drama.
:confused: This feels like a bad dream... No reply by the others.

Week 1

Monday 8.3. 2010

Reply to the raised allegations on the forum and Chriscos' threat to destroy SOJ.

No reply.

Hot recruitment phase. 19 active SOJ member leave to join either ToR or ICE (suck us dry) informed by Dave :mad:
Riaan invites to talk. Elli invites to talk. No reply.

Thursday 11.3.2010

I answer to Chriscos' PM from Saturday concerning the guild cape incident on TS during the DoA event on Friday night and invite him to talk.

No reply.

Saturday 13.3.2010

I talk on TS and resume playing with Millie. Friendly tone. We conclude that we both have overreacted.
She tells me I have to talk with Wesley and Chrisco as creating a new guild was their decision

Sunday 14.3.2010

I talk with Wesley on Skype. Neutral topics. Surprisingly friendly tone :)

Week 2

15.3.2010

I talk with Wesley on Skype testing a new headset I bought. On the question why he left he replies that as all important people have joined ToR that confirms that they are right and I am wrong. He quits the Skype conversation and asks in written chat for an excuse

16.3.2010

I apologise on the forum and send a PM to Chrisco and Wesley with an invitation to play & talk.

I contact Chrisco on msn and he accepts to play and talk with me on Sunday 21st.

18.3.2010

Talk with Wesley on a friendshiplike level. He says he would talk with the others about returning but thinks that the member that followed them would not want to return.
Overall good feeling in SOJ and SK that things can be finally settled :D

19.3.2010

Chrisco states on msn that their people did not leave bcs of the clap on his fingers. They will not rejoin SOJ bcs of what "I did" :eek:

20.3.2010
Chrisco cancels the talk on Sunday 21st because he is not ready to talk and "there is nothing to talk about" :confused:

Week 3

25.3.2010

Wesley confirms on msn that they will not rejoin SOJ, because "what happened" made it impossible for "their members" to come back.
Millie confirms that there is nothing left to discuss.
Total confusion in SOJ and SK

Lilly [SK] starts to mediate.

Second attempt

Week 4

29.3.2010
After an ingame chat with Millie I spontaneously join ToR on their TS. We play, chat and have fun as we used to and I am invited to join them whenever I want

2.4.2010

I talk with Chrisco on TS. Topics: 1) rejoining SOJ under the condition that they are reinstated, lead the guild and I retire but keep my position as "guild owner". He does not believe the members that followed them would want to come back. 2) alliance with SOJ. This option suggested by Millie shortly before the talk with Chrisco needs further talks on both sides. We conclude that he would come back to me once both points were discussed in ToR and I would discuss that options with SK.

Lilly starts to have long ingame and msn chats with Chrisco and Wesley almost every evening.
Also I try to chat and keep in touch with Wesley and Millie. We chat a couple of times.
Overall mutual trust seems to be re-established and talks and chats are back on a friendship-like level again

Week 5

6.4.2010

The major obstacle identified by Lilly and me was that the 3 worried that the former SOJ member in ToR would not want to come back. Therefore I write those former SOJ member a PM asking if I can do anything that would make it easier for them to follow them back. All those that reply say that they were happy in SOJ

In the early evening Chris sends me an msn message accusing me of trying to recruit their members. This is later confirmed by Millie and Wesley. At the end of the evening ToR decided (all member/leaders were online on that evening) to end talks "as an alliance is not possible". Side note: this topic has only been informally discussed between Millie and me and Wesley and Lilly and in my chat with Chrisco on the 2nd of April. ToR never got to hear the options we had in mind as the official dialogue was never opened on that topic. In fact an alliance was possible with some details that had to be discussed but easy to overcome with some good will imho.

From Miikka I got a reply that he would only come back under certain conditions that only ToR guarantees him (GH switch according to GvG needs, multiguild membership in GW2, simplification of the guild rules and structure and public apology for the ban of contact with ICE).

Millie asked me in a PM to give them more time.

Third attempt

11.4.2010

Wesley invited me ingame to join him for the next DTSC. My request to join their TS is rejected by Chrisco because another member vetoed it (= Dave or Valeske as nobody else was online). After 30 minutes of waiting in the Eternal Grove Wesley told me that he is playing now something else.

Week 6

18.4.2010

Friendly "super late night" talk with Chrisco. We agree to play something together later on that day after some sleep. Some hours later (evening in Europe) Millie invited me to join them. Minutes later I got a disinvite because an unnamed ToR member vetoed my participation.

Week 6

21.4.2010

I invited the 3 to join me on the 21.4. to play the Zaishen mission of the day and chat a bit with me. Playing and talking with them was as nice as it used to be, as if nothing had happened. There was no serious talking as Millie did not want that. That's why I invited Chrisco and Wesley to talk with me later when they were ready.

Week 7

26.4.2010

ToR rejects the invitation to talk about options to continue playing together.

30.4.2010

We invited all ToR members to join us for an event.
The evening was almost as nice as it used to be. It was a bit more silent than usually as we probably all had in mind the above decision.
&

Week 8

3.5.2010

Wesley points me on msn to the hidden "word fuck" video link in the 1555 days of SOJ thread. I "redirect" him to the main link. To avoid misunderstandings I added an explanation. Taking my efforts to get us back playing together and that we got along quite well only 3 days before into account, that could not be misunderstood by any well-meaning ToR member. The message was (successfully) targeting an ICE member screening our forum daily and asking me strange questions ingame.

5.5.2010
Linda and I got banned from the ToR forum. The overall feeling is best described by:
All SOJ and SK officers ask me to stop. After 3 failed attempts the ball is clearly on ToRs' side now!